The Untamed - Nickname Edition

[rheasilvia]

It took a surprisingly long time, but solo and I finally finished watching The Untamed. I really enjoyed it! So of course, there is a pressing issue I must adress: NICKNAMES.

For the purposes of clever (?) commentary, solo and I came up with a number of nicknames while watching. We replaced some with actual names in due course, but others stuck around till the very end. ;-) (I should add that few of them are complimentary - but my surprise fave is among those with a really bad nickname, so...)

• Stoneface


• Jin Douche


• Canary Guy


• Sulkmeister


• Pretty Evil Guy, or PEG for short - also known as Cray Evil Guy by solo (who failed to appreciate his charms)


• Jin Douche.2, or JD2


• Slimeface, also Slimedude or Slimer


• Cute Baby Cultivator, or CBC


• Jim, also known as Golden Guy - named Jim because of solo's passionate non-spellchecked outbursts of "I really hate jim"


• Bonus nickname I came up with too late, but that I wish I had though of in time: Soup Girl

I now have a number of burning questions for all of you. Namely:

1. Can you tell who these people are?*

2. Do you have nicknames for The Untamed characters?

3. Why does nobody appreciate my darling properly?

So many qestions!


*If anyone guesses all of the nicknames, I will write a drabble for them. ;-)

ETA: Unsurprisingly, there are spoilers in the comments! Just in case anyone is even slower than I in watching this. ;-)

Comments

[solo]

I've never particularly thought long hair loked good on guys, but here... man. Mind changed. ;-)

Though I keep wishing they'd get their split ends seen to...

[solo]

Waaaaah!

No, it's okay, I actually found it out independently last night because I have started watching my way through the series again and he appears in ep 14 with a pal as the 'last surviving members of Clan Somethingorother' and he was the chief and he's injured and he's the reason Jiang Cheng's father and sister travel to Jinlintai before the attack on Lotus Pier, because they take him there to keep him safe.

I shall endeavour to forget it again quickly.

[lauand]

To be fair, I think they were kinda following the cues of the original material. The books pretty much lead them that way. In the Guardian novel there's also an immediate fascination between the characters, SW becauses he knows who ZYL is and what he is to him and ZYL because SW is kind of hot and interesting. That becomes complicated with the identity porn and eventually solves when ZYL "remembers" who he is. In the drama they potentiate all that and introduce the time traveling fuckery that makes all the reactions logical because the moment they meet is different for each of them and one of them is already utterly in love with the other one in each instance but has to hide it. It's a thing of beauty because the actors really took their job seriously and the creators decided to put a lot of focus on the character's feelings and reactions, since it was the only way they could keep the BL without crossing the line and getting censored. It was very well done and resolved. And the particular style of the actors meshed perfectly well with the characterization of the, well, characters. It really worked for me.

The Untamed is a bit different because also in the Mo Dao Zu Shi novel the dynamics are different. It's an excruciatingly slow burn for WWX and we can only guess about LWJ's feelings because he has the expressivity of a dead salmon. Which is part of his appeal, but well, the audience can't get into their relationship as easily because there's actually no relationship to speak of until WWX realizes his feelings, which is so close to the moment he also realizes LWJ's that that's basically at the end. Which works for me in the novel because the adventure telling and the intrigue is fantastically done and even their friendship and the way their morality aligns even though their methods clash is enough to keep my interest and to empathize with both of them. But in the drama, since the storytelling is a bit stiff, there's nothing to distract me from the fact that the chemistry is not really there. Also, I'm not totally sure about LGJ's actor, I can't totally envision him as the character (whereas WWX's is pretty much perfect for the role).

Okay, end of the essay. Sorry for the rambling.

[rheasilvia]

LOL, your icon! Very nice. :-)

Good, then I will not feel guilty! ;-) And wow, I have no memory of his origins whatsoever. So he is just another thing the Wen clan has wrought, is he...

I shall endeavour to forget it again quickly.

He shall be known as Jim the Loathsome in eternity!

[rheasilvia]

Though I keep wishing they'd get their split ends seen to...

Obviously, this is a level of cultivation none of them have risen to yet.

[rheasilvia]

we can only guess about LWJ's feelings because he has the expressivity of a dead salmon

LOL! Potato, dead salmon... I sense a trend here. ;-)

But yes, absolutely. The situation is entirely different, and I definitely didn't expect the fascination and interest and depth of emotion to be there immediately, the way it is in Guardian - that doesn't fit the story. The relationship is set up to build slowly but steadily in The Untamed, which is also a lovely concept. For me, though, The Untamed drama never really realized this relationship potential - it didn't cash in on the premise, as it were. (And I do wonder what would have happened if an actor of Zhu Yilong's caliber had played LWJ. To me that would definitely have made a huge difference in terms of emotional impact and bringing the relationship to life.)

[ariunderscore]

I've already read through the comments, but Stoneface, Canary Guy (*hearts*), Sulkmeister (*hearts*), PEG and CBC (and SoupGirl!) were clear. And poor Meng Yao. :)

I started watching the series knowing I'd be into LWJ/WWX, and was then COMPLETELY blindsided by tons of other pairings and characters I ended up liking (most pained yell at Li: "Why do I like SmirkGuy so much all tied up and enjoying being patted down by WWX, WHYYYY??").

I used FluteGuy for WWX in a very early attempt to pimp Li into the fandom via songvid, but I think my main nickname was SmirkGuy. And of course there was also Mördergrübchen who I imprinted on as soon as he and LXC looked deeply at each other. These two are exhibit A and exhibit B of "why the fuck to I like them, also please, where is fixit fanfic for them???" *headdesks*

This fandom totally killed me with how much I like so many of the characters and pairings, and also how much I just want stories of LWJ and WWX being cute and together and _happy_. Just fluff is not usually my thing in fanfic, but in Untamed, for these 2? Please someone bury me in it.

I dipped a toe into the fanfic early October and there was the first week where I was *really* unproductive at work and I'm only now starting to slightly surface from reading my way through AO3. Li just keeps laughing at me being all *squee*. *pouts*

[abyss_valkyrie]

Yeaaah,the soup is not the kind of soup I like,lol! Now I am wondering if Wei Ying and Jiang Cheng complimented her soup because she made it and it had emotional/nostalgic feelings attached to it and not because it was actually tasty?!
JGY does look shifty doesn't he?!I thought so too and then I was like naaah,then I came across spoilers and I was like,ahha,my instincts were on point!
OMG YES!!Of course canary guy in Nie Huaisang! :D

[solo]

Mördergrübchen

Lol perfect! I'd use it if my keyboard didn't make Umlauts so fucking hard.

I dipped a toe into the fanfic early October and there was the first week where I was *really* unproductive at work and I'm only now starting to slightly surface from reading my way through AO3

Recs? :D

[rheasilvia]

Now I am wondering if Wei Ying and Jiang Cheng complimented her soup because she made it and it had emotional/nostalgic feelings attached to it and not because it was actually tasty?!

Heeee! I love that idea. When she made it the first time, she was incredibly proud of herself and watching her brothers like a hawk as they tried it - she had never cooked anything before, as the pampered daughter of the sect leader. It was watery and tasteless and just *odd*, but her brothers pretended to love it to make her happy... and as a result, she just *kept making it*. The exact same way. Their entire lives.

<3

[rheasilvia]

"Why do I like SmirkGuy so much all tied up and enjoying being patted down by WWX, WHYYYY??"

Smirk Guy (also a very fitting nickname!) is just *so pretty*. It's not fair. What is a poor slasher to do? (I mean, I actually don't want to read slash with him because he is such a nasty piece of work that anything even remotely in character would not be my cup of tea. But still. So damn pretty.)

Mördergrübchen is sheer brilliance! :-)So very fitting. But happily I did not imprint on him at all, and his charms were lost on me.

"why the fuck to I like them, also please, where is fixit fanfic for them???" *headdesks*

Yeah... although I'm sure there is a lot of fanfic with Mördergrübchen, who seems easier to write OOC (IMO) because he himself likes to paint himself as a sweet innocent flower forced into everything because of mean people being super mean to poor little sweet innocent him. Honestly!!! What was he supposed to do????? *g*

PEG just owns it. Which I can respect, in a way. ;-)

This fandom totally killed me with how much I like so many of the characters and pairings, and also how much I just want stories of LWJ and WWX being cute and together and _happy_.

Oh man, I am so full of regret for not being grabbed by WWX and LWJ, you have no idea. I am sure there are tons of lovely fanfic epics. Unfortunately the only thing I *would* be interested in in this fandom is epics of Jin Ling fully coming into his own, leaving Sulkmeister behind and ideally being properly appreciated by CBC. (I mean. He could pack up and go to the Lan sect to be tutored there, as they do; it would get him out of Sulkmeister's house and...) Great work, me. *headdesk*

Yay! I am glad that you are so squee! Squeeness is the best. :-)

[solo]

He could pack up and go to the Lan sect to be tutored there

I swear I read that as 'to be tortured there' not once but twice. What's wrong with my brain?

[rheasilvia]

...

Well, there *is* that house in the back that nobody speaks about, where recalcitrant cultivators can be safely locked up (and have several kids with the sect leader while imprisoned there)...

But they don't like to speak about that. Usually they prefer tutoring. Honest.

[ariunderscore]

You can use "oe" and "ue" to simulate ö and ü, if this helps. :)

And ... give me until the weekend, tomorrow is the last working day before christmas vacations, and I'll post something. I'll link you.

[ariunderscore]

For MöGrü I think it's easier, because he probably was never going to be one of the strictly upright moral guys, but if he had stuck with better role models instead of that father of his... Meh. The later in the story you get, the harder it is.

And yeah, agree on PEG just owning it, and you're correct about guessing what kind of fanfic there is. I would like if there was more with him where the summary looks like it's something I want to read, but I skip a lot.

Unfortunately the only thing I *would* be interested in in this fandom is epics of Jin Ling fully coming into his own

Actually, there is at least one story like that, where Jin Ling finds out a bit more what was going on during the war, and ends up being disillusioned about some things. I was planning to put that in the rec post I promised Solo - I just need to find it again.

And there are quite a few Lan Shizui/Jin Ling stories (or Jin Ling/Lan Jingyi, or just threesomes). I haven't actually focused on reading these, but you could always give the pairing tags a try? Sort by bookmarks and see what comes up?

(I wish there was a bit more gen-like stuff to read. Or, you know, not gen-noromo stuff, but long with plot where the romance is not the main attraction, just ongoing in the background, etc)

Ah, so much squee. It's nice to fall into a fandom this hard, it's been years.

[rheasilvia]

By the time we meet Slimer, I think it's already *way* too late. And TBH I think that even if he were brought up under ideal conditions, he'd never be someone I would want to read about. It's impossible to say, of course, but I never saw anything from him that interested me... Even if he wasn't a psychopathic, scheming murderer n times over, the underlying personality traits that brought him to that point would still be there, and to me it seems like they simply aren't ones that appeal to me.

As for PEG: I would like if there was more with him where the summary looks like it's something I want to read, but I skip a lot.

Yeah. I mean, it's much the same in his case - there's really no way to make him into a person I'd want to read about as a protagonist without going back into his early childhood, with no guarantee of success. Though in his case I'd at least be willing to try reading the story, if someone did attempt this. :-)

Jin Ling finds out a bit more what was going on during the war, and ends up being disillusioned about some things

... even more so? Is there more for him to find out at this point? I thought that already happened very nicely in canon - although perhaps "disillusioned" isn't the word I would use. He was already (too) disillusioned with life and himself in general; it was more that he simply found out the complicated truth of what went down to leave him an orphan in the harsh care of Sulkmeister. It wasn't as though JL was happy with the version he'd been taught before, though, and even *before* he found out the truth he was amazingly open-minded, and (underneath the defensive aggression) surprisingly kind and empathetic.

I know it comes as a huge surprise at this point, but yeah. I really like Jin Douche.2. I'm sure you couldn't tell. :-)

So I look forward to your rec!

there are quite a few Lan Shizui/Jin Ling stories

I did check once I'd finished watching, but didn't really find much of anything. Maybe I will look again. (Yeah, I did sort by pairings.)

It's nice to fall into a fandom this hard, it's been years.

It's so nice!! I know the feeling. :-)

[liriel]

Awww, you're all so cute! *coos at you*

[solo]

I know I can, but it doesn't look as cute. :D

[solo]

Ah, I was thinking more along the lines of torture by Lan Clan rules.

ETA: srsly I'll start spellchecking my comments again some time soon...

[solo]

The soup is actually a real thing, you can find recipes for it on the internet. I didn't think it looked tasty either, but in some of the recipes it did.

Now I want fic where shijie is a terrible cook and nobody wants to tell her. >_>

[rheasilvia]

Beaten with logs...?

I think JD2 is used to constant free-floating disapproval, arbitrary sternness with no positive reinforcement, and impossibly high demands that are never clearly explained. So I actually imagine he would do very well with the Lan approach, and wouldn't find it torturous at all. :-) Plus WWX would occasionally drop by and actually be nice to him and indicate he's a good kid! It'd be unprecedented warmth and affection.

(The fact that the Lan clan seems to have no rules against having sex with prisoners did stick very unpleasantly in my mind, though.)

[rheasilvia]

Indeed we are. I should watch some Guardian again soon. :-)

[ariunderscore]

I just posted recs here: https://ariunderscore.dreamwidth.org/361269.html (one minute before midnight. sorry, that took longer than expected)

[ariunderscore]

I spent some time on Friday at work thinking about this (between head-desking about ... well, people at work), because on one hand, I do agree with you re. there's no way to "fix" both of them if I apply any shred of RL reasoning.

But I really have a ... kink/button/power fantasy of love being able to redeem people. It's fairly specific - there are very few characters who manage to hit it. MY does in a big way. XY sorta, but not as directly. (Seishirou hit it big time, too)

Which, I mean, ok, is not a world shaking revelation, but I've never thought about why I like some villain redemption.

Gosh, no, what a surprise you like Jin Ling :) and gnnnn, I have to take such care that I don't write Lin Jing instead

I've not come across any junior fic that make me to "oooh, I love it" - which makes me sad. I should do a focused deep dive into the pairing tags.

This is the story I thought of - and now I realize it's an unfinished WIP, which is why it took forever to find: https://archiveofourown.org/works/20823821

I also came across 2 other stories that focus on JL - neither of them made me "save for later" list, tho:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/21665524
https://archiveofourown.org/works/21550396

redemption through love and liking evil characters

[rheasilvia]

(Sorry for the late reply, the holidays are really taking me offline this year...)

Oooh, I did not know about your love redemption button. Interesting! I can definitely see the attraction, and would actually be interested in knowing the specifics. I don't think I have the exact same button, but I do definitely enjoy a good redemption, and it crosses over into what I love about dark characters.

I actually need to think about this a lot more myself...

As you know, I do often love characters who are dark, as long as they are interesting - and frequently I find them far more interesting than heroes, simply because they can be more multi-faceted and provide more narrative potential. I don't think I can call my interest redemption, exactly... although it's not entirely unlike it, either. ;-) I generally want to explore those characters and their strengths and weaknesses, how they became what they are and made the choices they made. The person they are... and the person they can become, how they can / could have been different, all of that. And because I am a sucker for a happy ending (where "happy" can be pretty darkly happy depending on the situation, but you know, still happy *g*), that does often end up involving redemption, too.

But in terms of the character, I do need a basis to work with, some kind of glimpse of a baseline personality that I find not only interesting, but potentially relatable in some way (I hesitate to use "likable" - but it is that, too, even if it only applies to some traits rather than the entire person).

For examply, I love Seishirou as a character (though not as a person) because to me, he is very interesting to explore. He has an alien way of viewing the world and relating to people that I find fascinating, and he has traits that I can appreciate despite his everything. His relationship with Subaru is fascinating to me because of what it says about him, how it changes him and how (in my view) he traps himself in his own snare, and in the end surrenders to it with characteristic cruel flair. And it all works for me because I do see a baseline character that I find relatable, for reasons I'd have to think about longer to properly put into words.

In the case of Slimer and PEG, I dont see anything interesting there... a very slight glimmer in PEG, perhaps, because of his obsession for the blind cultivator whose name I can't remember, and the twisted mockery of affection it is. But it's so twisted, and what he reveals of his childhood is so off-putting (in terms of how his personality is evidently structured for him to react the way he did, when he did), that I have no interest in exploring it further - this is a person I do not find relatable, and I don't want to spend a lot of time in his head because I will not be able to identify with him, and will probably just feel nauseated. For me it's even more extreme with Slimer, who (in my view of the character) appears to have gone down his path on the basis of personality traits that I find actively off-putting even in characters that never commit a single crime. So, yeah, even if he grows up in circumstances that never have him do more than spread gossip about school rivals behind their back and gaslight his partners about why he cheats on them, he will still be someone I have absolutely no wish to read about. But of course there is lot of interpretation involved there!

Thank you very much for the links, I will check them out as soon as regular service is resumed! ;-)

Jin Ling and Lin Jing - yeah. Same problem. ,-)