Showdown!

[rheasilvia]

Poll #22464 Showdown!

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 30

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When you realize your showdown will be about as long as the entire rest of the story, the best response is to:

View Answers

shrug! Wordcount is meaningless, like smoke in the wind.
22 (73.3%)

giggle madly!
17 (56.7%)

find ways to shorten the showdown.
1 (3.3%)

write more of the non-showdown part of the story.
10 (33.3%)

eat cake.
15 (50.0%)

insert sex scenes into the rest of the story.
6 (20.0%)

insert sex scenes into the showdown.
5 (16.7%)

decide only the last bit of the showdown actually counts as a showdown.
10 (33.3%)

Just kidding, I won't be inserting random sex scenes. Although I have to say that is IS weird that none of my stories appear to include actual sex scenes anymore. Am I turning decent in my old age? Perish the thought!

No Sunday Six as of now, as I am actually working. You can tell by the fact I am posting polls on DW. ;-) But I did look at my showdown notes again, so that counts, right?

Comments

[jo_lasalle]

If that's what your showdown needs, that's what your showdown needs!

Although I have to say that is IS weird that none of my stories appear to include actual sex scenes anymore. Am I turning decent in my old age?

I recently said to someone else that "Not Actually A Prude It's Complicated" should be my sub header / ID button in Guardian fandom. I blame the fandom, not age! ^_^

[rheasilvia]

I do think it is what the showdown needs - and I do like my notes on it a lot, so I'm not going to be shortening it. But hey, editing tends to add to my wordcount anyway, so who knows how the rest of the story will develop. ;-)

It is oddly reassuring that this fandom isn't just turning me into a strictly G-rated writer! It's so weird writing those two. It's like they transcend mere physical lust with the force of their soul-deep devotion. Which is great and all, but boys. Come on.

[mecurtin]

Looking at your icon does NOT incline me to transcend mere physical lust, jsyk. Holy moly.

[rheasilvia]

You are not alone! :-) And of course, Shen Wei does Stare Particularly Intensely. But making him do anything more...

[jo_lasalle]

But hey, editing tends to add to my wordcount anyway

LOL! Aaaah, yes, that...

Which is great and all, but boys. Come on.

The groan of many a writing Sunday! I mean, I do at least have a backalley handjob to my name, but I still find them very, very complicated for porn, and especially compared to the anything and everything goes that's Akame for me... IOW, no, it's not just you!

[rheasilvia]

Yay for the backalley handjob! ;-) Yes, they are very complicated and contrary people. Who could really use a little bit of stress relief. Just saying.

It's really difficult for me to include them getting together / having sex in the context of a story that isn't exclusively focused on that exact theme, because it's too complicated. And my one WIP that IS exclusively focused on the theme is so immensely complicated it is pretty much an epic in the making.

Maybe an undercover in a sex club story would work. I've been considering it. ;-)

[jo_lasalle]

LOL, your icon! IT SPEAKS TRUTH. /o\

Basically, yes, to everything you said here, and I can totally see that AU is easier. Stupid boys.

[rheasilvia]

I can totally see that AU is easier

This particular undercover in a sex club story would not actually be an AU! I have a plot and everything. But TBH, I hope I don't end up writing it, simply because I have way too many WIPs already.

[akk]

I assume you realize that 2,5, and 7 won't solve the perceived problem, and that 7 would even aggravate it by adding (deliciously?) to the word count. ;)

[rheasilvia]

Are you sure about that? In my experience, eating cake solves a great many perceived problems! ;-)

[akk]

It solves the perception, not the problem. ;)

[rheasilvia]

For a merely perceived problem, solving the perception is solving the problem. ;-)

[akk]

That's a matter of perspective. ;)

[extrapenguin]

But are you sure that they shouldn't have time for an adventurous blowjob in the back of the Jeep before the showdown? :P

Congratulations on having a thing! The showdown and prelude should be as long as they need to be. Eat cake and chill. ;)

[rheasilvia]

But are you sure that they shouldn't have time for an adventurous blowjob in the back of the Jeep before the showdown? :P

Heee! In this story, that would be verrry complicated. Not completely impossible, but very tricky! As well as pretty odd in terms of tone. ;-)

But I have cake (well, a cupcake *g*), and I'm not stressing over it. It probably shouldn't even have surprised me, considering my usual writing habits. I look forward to finding out how the various parts of the story will balance out! :-)

[clevermanka]

Love how nobody so far has said to shorten it. =D

[rheasilvia]

Yes! :-) But I couldn't do that, in any case - the showdown needs to be this long. We will see how long the rest of the story turns out to be. ;-)

[lauand]

Meanwhile, during the showdown:

"Okay, I know we're in the middle of something important, but I think we should have random sex."

"...Whut?"

-----

I tend to think the writer is pretty much a vessel and the story is actually the boss. If the showdown is longer than the rest of the story, so be it. You can't really tame the gods of fiction, the best path is always blind faith and obedience. And a bit of worshipping, that can't hurt.


Looking at your notes definitely counts. It's actually what I fear the most when resuming an old WIP. Because it doesn't feel like progress, but it's still very necessary and it keeps the machinery greased and in optimal condition for the work.

[extrapenguin]

"Okay, I know we're in the middle of something important, but I think we should have random sex."
A good dose of sex pollen can make anything happen!

[lauand]

To be completely honest, I think it's one of the best qualities of porn, this unapologetic ability to make sex a justifiable decision no matter the circumstances. Real life should definitely take notes on that. Mankind as a whole would benefit from it. I certainly would.

[clevermanka]

"Okay, I know we're in the middle of something important, but I think we should have random sex."
This is pretty much literally what's happening in the fic I'm writing right now. =D

[lauand]

XDDDD!!! OMG, I seriously love fanfiction!! ♥

[clevermanka]

Seriously I kinda wanna use that line as the fic summary. (I mean, I won't, but...it's 100% accurate)

[lauand]

It's the kind of sinopsis that would definitely make me want to read a story. I'm not even joking, I'm dead serious about it.

[clevermanka]

I'll probably wind up using something pretty similar, just a little more detailed. Thanks for the idea!

[lauand]

*thumbs up*

[rheasilvia]

"Okay, I know we're in the middle of something important, but I think we should have random sex."

There are so many reasons why this might be an absolutely legitimate choice! From sex magic to distraction to generating positive energy... ;-)

I tend to think the writer is pretty much a vessel and the story is actually the boss.

If the story goes in a different dircetion than originally planned, hey: I am willing to go with it. Provided it works. If it doesn't, that story and I will have to Have Words;-)

Looking at your notes definitely counts.

I found it very encouraging, because I still like the showdown - at least in note form, it works very well. So I guess if its long, that's all for the better, right? ;-)

Besides, the rest of the story may very well grow in editing. We shall see...

[lauand]

I have total faith in your writing prowess and criterium! Let us know how it works out in the end :)

[rheasilvia]

Thank you!! And I hope that you will be able to read the story before too long! :-)

[lauand]

:D

[trobadora]

What the story needs, the story needs. :)

[rheasilvia]

I am not deaf to the calls of the story! :-) We will see where it goes.

[phyrry]

I have written my Weilan sex fic and, ongoing tentacle fluff aside, I am done with ship-centric fic for the forseeable future. (In fact the tentacle fluff is turning into plotty casefic, too.) So I see no problems with a lack of sex scenes; sometimes they're just not what you want to write, and that's okay.

[rheasilvia]

As the author of a story containing actual sex between those two, you are ahead of me! :-) That is something I have yet to achieve...

I completely agree that a lack of sex scenes is not a problem in itself. Not every story needs them, and if an author simply doesn't feel like writing any, then that is completely okay in every possible way. The thing is, I actually *would* quite like to write a story that has a sex scene or two with these two jokers. So far, they have simply not wanted to cooperate.

But their time will come! Not in this story, though. ;-)

[phyrry]

They have a complicated relationship! Zhao Yunlan's boyfriend is a lot of work, what with all that stonewalling. :p

[china_shop]

Although I have to say that is IS weird that none of my stories appear to include actual sex scenes anymore.

Ha! I've been puzzling a lot lately over what makes some pairings easier to porn than others. There are some that easily lend themselves to dirty little PWPs, and others that just don't seem to. My current vague-not-quite-theory is a combination of one of the characters being reserved/earnest/self-controlled, plus high levels of certainty about the relationship (in canon), combining into a kind of stability that's hard to smutify? Or something? Idk.

Anyway, good luck! *\o/* *\o/* *\o/*

[rheasilvia]

I've been puzzling a lot lately over what makes some pairings easier to porn than others. There are some that easily lend themselves to dirty little PWPs, and others that just don't seem to.

It really is intriguing! I haven't thought about it much yet, but I will have to - the differences are really quite striking. The reserve is certainly a factor, I would say, but in my writing experience, there hasn't been a correlation to high levels of canon certainty about the relationship. High levels of emotional importance to the characters are a factor, though...

For me, I think it has a lot to do with the complexity of both the characters and their relationship. Both Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei are complex people, and their relationship - as unquestioned and soul-deep as it is - is even more complex, with steep differences in knowledge and secrets and other such impediments littering the emotional landscape. And because the stakes are so high for both of them, they are both very careful every step of the way... so casual sex seems out of the question, and there is a lot riding on every advance in the relationship.

It makes it tricky! Even sex in an established relationship seems tricky to me, because the relationship is still so complex, so deep and so important. Writing all of that into the sex (even without dwelling on it) is quite a challenge, and requires a lot of thought on my part.

I will think on it more!

[lauand]

I tend to think it's actually related to the intensity of their feelings is canon. Their relationship is, as you all have acknowledged, very complex and layered. They're pretty much restrained in canon, their feelings are obvious and not purely platonic, there's most definitely a lot of UST going on there, but the thing is that the base for it is the kind of devotion that trascends everything else, including the physical. On the one hand it's their past, things left unsaid and things not remembered, things they can't talk about for fear to change what's bound to happen, but it's also their present, how they hold back and talk to each other in riddles and are reluctant to say anything overt whereas they are also utterly unafraid to act and show the strength of their love or how special and fascinanting they found each other. It's the kind of thing that makes porn difficult because there's so much feeling behind it that trying to boil it down to sex feels like cheapening it or something. Which might look strange at first, because their story is not the kind of epic love story that we hold as stereotypically romantic (no damsel in distress/white knight dynamic, both are pretty much equals in every possible sense), but in a sense, I think that makes it all the more powerful because of it, so it's difficult to treat it/approach it as we would those other stories.

(So, yeah, I pretty much agree with your analysis, really.)

[rheasilvia]

It's the kind of thing that makes porn difficult because there's so much feeling behind it that trying to boil it down to sex feels like cheapening it or something.

To me, it just isn't the kind of relationship that *can* be boiled down to sex. The sex is happening, I think we all agree on that, but because of who they are and how they relate to each other, it's woven into the relationship in a complex and meaningful way that is just extremely difficult for me to get right in my mind.

I don't think that I've ever written a "stereotypically" romantic pairing, so I wouldn't know how to approach writing sex there, either. But usually it's easier to get from desire to actual sex, when here, there's so much else that plays into it... and in the end, the physical desire is the least important part of their all-encompassing desire for each other.

[lauand]

I'm not very good at writing sex in general myself, to be honest, so I totally get the hardships of getting the smut right in one's head. What the hell, I don't even think I can get the grasp of their regular interaction, not just yet.

... and in the end, the physical desire is the least important part of their all-encompassing desire for each other.

Yes, I totally agree.

(And still, still, after literally 10.000 years waiting and holding back, it should be an easy-enough-to-break dam that's keeping Shen Wei in check. One would think that kind of blue balls would make smut easier to happen, and not harder.)

[china_shop]

but in my writing experience, there hasn't been a correlation to high levels of canon certainty about the relationship. High levels of emotional importance to the characters are a factor, though...

Yeah, I think I'm expressing the "canon certainty" thing badly. I was trying to get at "because of how things go in canon, I'm pretty confident that they will get together and stay together, in a relatively stable relationship." As opposed to two guys who meet twice in canon but somehow spark like fireworks in fic. But I have tiny sample sizes, and that factor may be more correlation than causation.

Both Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei are complex people, and their relationship - as unquestioned and soul-deep as it is - is even more complex, with steep differences in knowledge and secrets and other such impediments littering the emotional landscape.

I don't think it's about complexity for me. I had an RPS pairing for a while that were a complex mass of all kinds of interdependencies and issues, and they were wonderfully filthy. And I had a similar smutblock (though to a lesser extent) with Fraser/Kowalski in Due South, and their relationship was actually pretty straightforward.

But in the instance of Guardian, I think you're right -- those high stakes and the care they take definitely exacerbate the problem.

Ooh, maybe it's simply how careful they are of each other? Hmm... *continues to ponder*

[rheasilvia]

Hmm. It may be that we are hampered by different things here, because the more I think about it, the more the "emotional high stakes and complexity of the relationship"-combination makes sense to me as my impediment in writing sex.

I had a similar smutblock (though to a lesser extent) with Fraser/Kowalski in Due South, and their relationship was actually pretty straightforward.

That's interesting! Hmmm, I think I could have written sex for Fraser/Kowalski without problems, if I had written that pairing at all. To me, the only possible issue there seems to be Fraser's reserve and protective facade of asexuality (but I don't think he is actually asexual, and it would have been fun to show him being completely uninhibited and just doing whatever feels good with no hang-ups whatsoever).

OTOH, I did have a little bit of the same issue with Charles Xavier and Erik Lehnsherr in X-Men First Class - and there it also had to do with the complexity of the characters and their relationship, *and* the high emotional stakes that sex is bound to have to the characters.

But the extent that the Guardian guys are smutblocking me is really a first for me. :-) Still, I will get them there eventually! I am determined. ;-)

[china_shop]

FTR, I did write a fair amount of F/K smut; I just found it startling how much easier Ray/Ray were in comparison. They required almost no coaxing at all! ;-)

Still, I will get them there eventually! I am determined. ;-)

*cheers you on*

[torch]

I only ticked "write more of the non-showdown part of the story" because it's what I would end up doing -- this is why I can't write anything short, because my solution to any perceived problem is always to add more words to it. But I think a combination of "giggle madly" and "eat cake" sounds best, really, as long as you actually finish the showdown. :)

(I actually started watching Guardian! Up to ep 6, atm, although I confess I nearly stopped after 3 because it made me want to strangle someone. Spoiler question, how long do I have to wait for the Black-Cloaked Envoy reveal? Shallow side note: that guy who always dresses in black (not to be confused with the B-C E) is nice to look at.)

[rheasilvia]

my solution to any perceived problem is always to add more words to it

Yes! I have been trying to teach myself brevity for decades now, and have made peace with the fact that it will not happen. And I *do* actually edit out a bunch of words when revising! I just add in more, overall. :-)

Giggling, eating cake and finishing the showdown seem like ideally compatible activities! I just have to acquire some more cake, and I'll be good to go.

I actually started watching Guardian!

Oooh, yay! I am glad to hear you're giving Guardian a try, even if it there are strangler issues.

Spoiler question, how long do I have to wait for the Black-Cloaked Envoy reveal?

It happens in stages, but if you're already at ep 6, it isn't terribly long until Zhao Yunlan knows. Do you want the actual ep? Details on the reveal? I'm happy to spoil to any desired extent.

I confess I nearly stopped after 3 because it made me want to strangle someone.

Let me guess: Shen Wei is the person you wanted to strangle? He does have that effect... there are several moments in the series where I want to strangle him, too (and so does Zhao Yunlan). For a smart guy, he is astoundingly block-headed about some things. Which is actually fun to think about in terms of "why" and "how will this work" and all of that, but yes, also quite frustrating. ;-)

that guy who always dresses in black (not to be confused with the B-C E) is nice to look at.)

Old Chu - indeed, he is very aesthetically pleasing. :-)

[tinny]

Just kidding, I won't be inserting random sex scenes.

What do you mean, you won't? Five people voted for doing just that. (They must be right, adding more sex scenes solves all your writing problems. :D)

Good luck writing your story! <3 I say, ignore the word count, if the showdown is engaging and interesting, it deserves all the time in the world.

[rheasilvia]

adding more sex scenes solves all your writing problems

Considering that if I did go this route, I would come up against an entirely new set of writing problems, you may be right! From a certain point of view. ;-)

Good luck writing your story!

Thank you!! <3 Yes, I will ignore the wordcount for now - and I certainly hope the showdown will turn out to be engaging and interesting. Plus, who knows how the rest of the story will develop during editing...